The terms Paul uses concerning how each "side" can wrongly view the other is SO true to life: The weaker (in this case, unnecessarily conservative) brother is tempted to "judge" the brother who does not share his view, and the stronger (in this case, more allowing) brother is tempted to "despise" his more conservative brother. How many times has this scenario played out among brethren? =(
Good parallel. Another one would be rules around masks as covid loosened its hold. In our church there was a separate area for those who wish to continue to wear masks, but there was no official guidance on the subject and the matter was treated as a strictly personal preference. Thankfully we have escaped the ongoing acrimony over whether covid restrictions were or were not justified by the medical knowledge at the time.
great post: I struggle so much with this issue. It tears me up to see women, especially, come to services looking trashy. I try not to focus on others; how hard is it for men? Have we lost all respect for ourselves and reverence for God Almighty? We take casual to such extremes.
There is a difference in dressing immodestly and dressing modestly, yet more casual. It's important for us to consider the difference. Immodest clothing shouldn't be worn.
true, we see plenty of immodesty. What about the wrinkled AC/DC shirt and torn skin tight jeans? I must be a prude because I see more casual as totally disrespectful.
I don't think you've thought this through, with respect. You correctly mention "what's improper" as part of God's definition of modesty, the definition of which also includes reverence as you correctly point out. Who determines "what's improper"? Who determines what constitutes "reverence"? If it's up to the individual and thus nothing more or less than a scruple, then wearing the Taco Bell outfit to worship and preach in should be completely fine, correct?
Is what is actually modest - in all of its definitions - completely subjective and up to each of us as individuals? If that is the case, then by what objective authority would anyone be able to declare anything to be immodest in any way? What is stopping us from therefore agreeing with the woman wearing the bikini when she says that to her the bikini is modest, especially when compared to the nude beaches of Europe?
Or is the definition of modesty -- and to be more specific to the clothing in worship issue, "what's improper" and what actually shows "reverence" -- more than simply individually subjective and thus nothing more than opinion and scruple? Again, take note of the Malachi 1:6-8 principle. God certainly seems to think that honoring him at least in part has some sort of objective standard: if you would not honor someone like a governor by doing _____________, then you are not honoring God by doing _____________________ as well. Logic requires there to be an amount of objectivity in the standards of honor promoted in this passage.
Therefore, I respectfully urge you to consider that this matter is more than simply a matter of conscience, opinion, and scruple. The opinion aspect does exist , true. There is no set dress code for worship, and so there does exist within the equation options which are up to each individual. If you look at the Bush example I gave, there was no set dress code there either. Specifically, it gave several options rather than demanding only one. The key factor is that all of those options fall within the realm of dress which is appropriate for an important occasion. And in determining that, there does exist a degree of objective standard. Otherwise, wearing a restaurant uniform to important occasions like worshiping the Creator of the universe and the Savior of our souls, or meeting a president of the United States, would be seen by all as perfectly appropriate.
You are focused on the scruple aspect of this, which is understandable since that's what your article is about. However, there is also the biblical directive of reverence, and the Malachi principle which shows us how God defines said reverence, that must be added to the equation. I would encourage you to take clothing out of the equation for the moment and apply this question to some of the other issues I brought up. Is the Christian who is singing Amazing Grace with their mouth while completely focused on making faces at the cute baby in the pew in front of them worshiping God correctly and showing appropriate reverence and honor to God per Matthew 15:8 and Hebrews 12:28...or is that determination nothing but a subjective scruple and matter of opinion? The Christian who goes out of their way to make sure that they are always on time for work but never cares enough to put forth that same effort for worship and thus is always 15 minutes late...are they actually violating no objective directives and principles in the NT whatsoever and thus what they are doing is just a scruple? Or could one objective say from Scripture that they are not giving God the honor and reverence due him in these ways? Ask these questions about the ones who whisper, scroll on social media during worship, etc. Are all of those matters nothing more than scruples? Or is there something more objectively wrong with them per Scripture?
I'm going to gently and respectfully give you some push back on the clothing issue a bit, since there is the command to offer God reverence in worship (Heb. 12:28; Matt. 6:9; etc.) which thus makes this a bit more than a conscience issue.
I'd like to respectfully offer you two real-life examples as analogies to consider.
First, tomorrow night, Lord willing, I will be meeting a former president of the United States, George W. Bush. He is speaking at the private school my girls attend, and a friend invited my wife and I to attend with them as guests. Yesterday morning, I received an email with guidelines concerning the event, mostly security issues. However, there was also this directive: "The attire for the evening is business dress such as... (Women): slacks or dress pants, skirts or dresses, blouses, sweaters, etc.; (Men): dress slacks or chinos, suit/sports jackets or blazers, tie optional, collared shirts, etc." My rhetorical question is, why can't I wear a t-shirt and blue jeans or cargo shorts to meet a president of the United States? Clear answer: because he's a president of the United States, a very important individual whose office deserves respect and honor, and a t-shirt and jeans are not clothes which are designed to show honor and respect. With that in mind, remember Malachi 1:6-8, which contains a principle along these lines concerning how God views showing honor to him. "A son honors his father, and a servant his master. If then I am a father, where is my honor? And if I am a master, where is my fear? says the Lord of hosts to you, O priests, who despise my name. But you say, 'How have we despised your name?' By offering polluted food upon my altar. But you say, 'How have we polluted you?' By saying that the Lord's table may be despised. When you offer blind animals in sacrifice, is that not evil? And when you offer those that are lame or sick, is that not evil? PRESENT THAT TO YOUR GOVERNOR; WILL HE ACCEPT YOU OR SHOW YOU FAVOR? says the Lord of hosts." (emphasis added). It's worth noting that God defines showing him honor in part by comparing what is done in worship to him to the honor one would show to a VIP like a governor (or a president). This is in the Scriptures to serve as an example and instruction to us (Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 10:11; 2 Tim. 3:16-17).
Secondly, I used to work at Taco Bell. I still have the uniform, complete with apron. The uniform consists of a dark blue shirt with a small Taco Bell logo on the front and an advertising slogan (if memory serves, it's "Yo quero Taco Bell") on the back in larger letters, dark blue khakis, and a dark blue apron with nothing on it. All of these items of clothing are clean, and all of them are modest in that they do not reveal anything untoward about my body, nor are they extravagant. I also own a couple of suits, a few dress shirts, a few dress pants, dress shoes, and a few sports jackets. They are hanging in my closet not far from the Taco Bell outfit. My question I offer for consideration is this, keeping in mind the biblical directives to show God reverence and honor when one worships him (Heb. 12:28; Matt. 6:9; etc.) and the biblical principle in Malachi 1:6-8 about how God defines showing honor to him in part by how we show honor to VIPs who deserve honor like governors. This coming Sunday, would there be anything inherently wrong with me wearing the inherently modest Taco Bell outfit, complete with modest apron, to worship God and preach a message from Him during that worship...instead of the nicer clothes I have in my closet which are also modest and yet are also designed to show honor and respect to occasions which demand honor and respect?
My dirt-poor grandpa owned nothing but overalls, but I am told he made sure that one of them was always clean and ironed on Saturday nights to wear to worship the next the day, specifically because he recognized that purposefully wearing dirty and smelly overalls to worship when he didn't have to do so was a blatant act of disrespect to God, considering that he wouldn't do that to other important people and occasions (per Malachi 1:6-8). In contrast, I've seen brethren on Sunday morning dress like they're going on a picnic or to a concert, then a few hours later during a funeral for a loved one on Sunday afternoon dress in nicer clothes out of respect, and then a few hours later during the evening worship show up dressed like they're going to a picnic or a concert. They show honor and respect for a VIP in their life, but don't think it necessary to do the same to God in worshiping him.
I respectfully urge all who read this to give this honest, prayerful consideration. While you're considering it, consider the times either you yourself or others whom you've observed or have talked to about these matters who admit to you that they do the following: spend the worship services sleeping, scrolling through social media on their phones, whispering, making faces at the cute baby instead of focusing on the worship, writing the check for the contribution during the Lord's Supper instead of memorializing the Son's sacrifice, habitually arriving late even though they could in fact arrive on time and in fact make sure they do so for other things like work, allowing their minds to wander far away during any of the acts of worship, etc. A lot of Christians in our society really do not have a biblical understanding of how necessary actual reverence is to worship God correctly; they simply think showing up and making sure that one does not use a piano or address prayers to Mary is all that's required. Should all of the above be dismissed as scruples and conscience issues, or are there actual principles and directives in the NT concerning worship and reverence which common sense shows they violate? The clothing issue is just one of many symptoms of the real problem of a lack of reverence, and thus is not as much of a conscience matter as many classify it to be. Just something to think about.
The things you mentioned would fall under God's definition of modesty. Modesty includes a few different ideas - it would be immodest to wear too little, too much, what's improper or draw undue attention to oneself.
As long as what a person wears meets God's definition of modesty, they have freedom to wear what they would like - while also considering their brethren who have scruples on this issue.
Unlike your meeting with President Bush (which is awesome btw!) and your time spent working at Taco Bell, there is no commanded dress code for worshipping God in the New Testament - other than God's command to dress modestly (with all that includes - reverence being part of it I believe from passages like 1 Timothy 2:8-10).
This is obviously a scruple for you, and I respect that. But I would remind you to be very careful not to impose your scruple upon others. Paul allowed brethren to hold to matters of conscience and opinion, but opposed them quite strongly when they attempted to make it a matter of faith or started judging their brethren over these matters.
Amen
The terms Paul uses concerning how each "side" can wrongly view the other is SO true to life: The weaker (in this case, unnecessarily conservative) brother is tempted to "judge" the brother who does not share his view, and the stronger (in this case, more allowing) brother is tempted to "despise" his more conservative brother. How many times has this scenario played out among brethren? =(
It's a challenge for all of us - which is why this chapter is so practical for us today!
Good parallel. Another one would be rules around masks as covid loosened its hold. In our church there was a separate area for those who wish to continue to wear masks, but there was no official guidance on the subject and the matter was treated as a strictly personal preference. Thankfully we have escaped the ongoing acrimony over whether covid restrictions were or were not justified by the medical knowledge at the time.
great post: I struggle so much with this issue. It tears me up to see women, especially, come to services looking trashy. I try not to focus on others; how hard is it for men? Have we lost all respect for ourselves and reverence for God Almighty? We take casual to such extremes.
There is a difference in dressing immodestly and dressing modestly, yet more casual. It's important for us to consider the difference. Immodest clothing shouldn't be worn.
true, we see plenty of immodesty. What about the wrinkled AC/DC shirt and torn skin tight jeans? I must be a prude because I see more casual as totally disrespectful.
I don't think you've thought this through, with respect. You correctly mention "what's improper" as part of God's definition of modesty, the definition of which also includes reverence as you correctly point out. Who determines "what's improper"? Who determines what constitutes "reverence"? If it's up to the individual and thus nothing more or less than a scruple, then wearing the Taco Bell outfit to worship and preach in should be completely fine, correct?
Is what is actually modest - in all of its definitions - completely subjective and up to each of us as individuals? If that is the case, then by what objective authority would anyone be able to declare anything to be immodest in any way? What is stopping us from therefore agreeing with the woman wearing the bikini when she says that to her the bikini is modest, especially when compared to the nude beaches of Europe?
Or is the definition of modesty -- and to be more specific to the clothing in worship issue, "what's improper" and what actually shows "reverence" -- more than simply individually subjective and thus nothing more than opinion and scruple? Again, take note of the Malachi 1:6-8 principle. God certainly seems to think that honoring him at least in part has some sort of objective standard: if you would not honor someone like a governor by doing _____________, then you are not honoring God by doing _____________________ as well. Logic requires there to be an amount of objectivity in the standards of honor promoted in this passage.
Therefore, I respectfully urge you to consider that this matter is more than simply a matter of conscience, opinion, and scruple. The opinion aspect does exist , true. There is no set dress code for worship, and so there does exist within the equation options which are up to each individual. If you look at the Bush example I gave, there was no set dress code there either. Specifically, it gave several options rather than demanding only one. The key factor is that all of those options fall within the realm of dress which is appropriate for an important occasion. And in determining that, there does exist a degree of objective standard. Otherwise, wearing a restaurant uniform to important occasions like worshiping the Creator of the universe and the Savior of our souls, or meeting a president of the United States, would be seen by all as perfectly appropriate.
You are focused on the scruple aspect of this, which is understandable since that's what your article is about. However, there is also the biblical directive of reverence, and the Malachi principle which shows us how God defines said reverence, that must be added to the equation. I would encourage you to take clothing out of the equation for the moment and apply this question to some of the other issues I brought up. Is the Christian who is singing Amazing Grace with their mouth while completely focused on making faces at the cute baby in the pew in front of them worshiping God correctly and showing appropriate reverence and honor to God per Matthew 15:8 and Hebrews 12:28...or is that determination nothing but a subjective scruple and matter of opinion? The Christian who goes out of their way to make sure that they are always on time for work but never cares enough to put forth that same effort for worship and thus is always 15 minutes late...are they actually violating no objective directives and principles in the NT whatsoever and thus what they are doing is just a scruple? Or could one objective say from Scripture that they are not giving God the honor and reverence due him in these ways? Ask these questions about the ones who whisper, scroll on social media during worship, etc. Are all of those matters nothing more than scruples? Or is there something more objectively wrong with them per Scripture?
Just something to think about.
I'm going to gently and respectfully give you some push back on the clothing issue a bit, since there is the command to offer God reverence in worship (Heb. 12:28; Matt. 6:9; etc.) which thus makes this a bit more than a conscience issue.
I'd like to respectfully offer you two real-life examples as analogies to consider.
First, tomorrow night, Lord willing, I will be meeting a former president of the United States, George W. Bush. He is speaking at the private school my girls attend, and a friend invited my wife and I to attend with them as guests. Yesterday morning, I received an email with guidelines concerning the event, mostly security issues. However, there was also this directive: "The attire for the evening is business dress such as... (Women): slacks or dress pants, skirts or dresses, blouses, sweaters, etc.; (Men): dress slacks or chinos, suit/sports jackets or blazers, tie optional, collared shirts, etc." My rhetorical question is, why can't I wear a t-shirt and blue jeans or cargo shorts to meet a president of the United States? Clear answer: because he's a president of the United States, a very important individual whose office deserves respect and honor, and a t-shirt and jeans are not clothes which are designed to show honor and respect. With that in mind, remember Malachi 1:6-8, which contains a principle along these lines concerning how God views showing honor to him. "A son honors his father, and a servant his master. If then I am a father, where is my honor? And if I am a master, where is my fear? says the Lord of hosts to you, O priests, who despise my name. But you say, 'How have we despised your name?' By offering polluted food upon my altar. But you say, 'How have we polluted you?' By saying that the Lord's table may be despised. When you offer blind animals in sacrifice, is that not evil? And when you offer those that are lame or sick, is that not evil? PRESENT THAT TO YOUR GOVERNOR; WILL HE ACCEPT YOU OR SHOW YOU FAVOR? says the Lord of hosts." (emphasis added). It's worth noting that God defines showing him honor in part by comparing what is done in worship to him to the honor one would show to a VIP like a governor (or a president). This is in the Scriptures to serve as an example and instruction to us (Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 10:11; 2 Tim. 3:16-17).
Secondly, I used to work at Taco Bell. I still have the uniform, complete with apron. The uniform consists of a dark blue shirt with a small Taco Bell logo on the front and an advertising slogan (if memory serves, it's "Yo quero Taco Bell") on the back in larger letters, dark blue khakis, and a dark blue apron with nothing on it. All of these items of clothing are clean, and all of them are modest in that they do not reveal anything untoward about my body, nor are they extravagant. I also own a couple of suits, a few dress shirts, a few dress pants, dress shoes, and a few sports jackets. They are hanging in my closet not far from the Taco Bell outfit. My question I offer for consideration is this, keeping in mind the biblical directives to show God reverence and honor when one worships him (Heb. 12:28; Matt. 6:9; etc.) and the biblical principle in Malachi 1:6-8 about how God defines showing honor to him in part by how we show honor to VIPs who deserve honor like governors. This coming Sunday, would there be anything inherently wrong with me wearing the inherently modest Taco Bell outfit, complete with modest apron, to worship God and preach a message from Him during that worship...instead of the nicer clothes I have in my closet which are also modest and yet are also designed to show honor and respect to occasions which demand honor and respect?
My dirt-poor grandpa owned nothing but overalls, but I am told he made sure that one of them was always clean and ironed on Saturday nights to wear to worship the next the day, specifically because he recognized that purposefully wearing dirty and smelly overalls to worship when he didn't have to do so was a blatant act of disrespect to God, considering that he wouldn't do that to other important people and occasions (per Malachi 1:6-8). In contrast, I've seen brethren on Sunday morning dress like they're going on a picnic or to a concert, then a few hours later during a funeral for a loved one on Sunday afternoon dress in nicer clothes out of respect, and then a few hours later during the evening worship show up dressed like they're going to a picnic or a concert. They show honor and respect for a VIP in their life, but don't think it necessary to do the same to God in worshiping him.
I respectfully urge all who read this to give this honest, prayerful consideration. While you're considering it, consider the times either you yourself or others whom you've observed or have talked to about these matters who admit to you that they do the following: spend the worship services sleeping, scrolling through social media on their phones, whispering, making faces at the cute baby instead of focusing on the worship, writing the check for the contribution during the Lord's Supper instead of memorializing the Son's sacrifice, habitually arriving late even though they could in fact arrive on time and in fact make sure they do so for other things like work, allowing their minds to wander far away during any of the acts of worship, etc. A lot of Christians in our society really do not have a biblical understanding of how necessary actual reverence is to worship God correctly; they simply think showing up and making sure that one does not use a piano or address prayers to Mary is all that's required. Should all of the above be dismissed as scruples and conscience issues, or are there actual principles and directives in the NT concerning worship and reverence which common sense shows they violate? The clothing issue is just one of many symptoms of the real problem of a lack of reverence, and thus is not as much of a conscience matter as many classify it to be. Just something to think about.
The things you mentioned would fall under God's definition of modesty. Modesty includes a few different ideas - it would be immodest to wear too little, too much, what's improper or draw undue attention to oneself.
As long as what a person wears meets God's definition of modesty, they have freedom to wear what they would like - while also considering their brethren who have scruples on this issue.
Unlike your meeting with President Bush (which is awesome btw!) and your time spent working at Taco Bell, there is no commanded dress code for worshipping God in the New Testament - other than God's command to dress modestly (with all that includes - reverence being part of it I believe from passages like 1 Timothy 2:8-10).
This is obviously a scruple for you, and I respect that. But I would remind you to be very careful not to impose your scruple upon others. Paul allowed brethren to hold to matters of conscience and opinion, but opposed them quite strongly when they attempted to make it a matter of faith or started judging their brethren over these matters.